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Jalisco Condo Manual

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Jalisco Condo Manual

Postby annod » Sat May 16, 2015 10:45 am

Well, I am certainly not the writer of this book, nor have I ever met Gary Musgrave, I am simply an admirer. What devotion it must have taken to write it, it is 550 pages, but easily read and understood.

Gary Musgrave, a Canadian, wrote the book "Jalisco condo Manual" after years of being on condo councils & boards and finding out first hand that the laws of Mexico were unknown to the people who tried to run the condos. So, he teamed up with lawyers to put a manual together.

Each chapter starts with him citing an individual law and then he goes on to detail and explain it. Each law is an "Article". You can also read all the laws in Spanish and then translated to English in his book "Jalisco Condo Law" which is all the laws that pertain to a condo in Jalisco.

The book also brings up topics like dealing with owners who fail to pay dues, administrative duties, the transfer of the condo from developer to owners, voting procedures, proxies, employees, realtor's duties, council duties, special assessments, dues, termination of employees, what to expect to pay employees, writing by-laws, when to call a meeting, quoram, etc.... any question that you have - I am sure he addresses it. Even tips on getting along and communicating well. Plus, you can download pages of samples for calling a meeting and other documents when you register your book.

This book should be the Bible in every condo. And there is a new edition that has just hit the book shelves.....I can't wait to get mine, as it cites a new law in Jalisco (Jan. 2014, Article 25.IV of the Federal Income Tax Regulations), not a condo law, a income tax law which is criminally prosecuted, which says that paying any invoice which is not an electronic factura is illegal and you may be prosecuted, fined and/or imprisoned. Exception being a bill under 1,500. pesos (not sure of the exact amount....waiting for my book!) Article 25.IV, also says that condo managers must file reports with Hacienda every month listing all monies paid out, and these reports must be given to every condo owner. Wow, does your condo manager comply with this law? And if they don't......are we the responsible party, as the manager works for the Council (or Board), and the Council works for the owners.
You can either be right all the time or you can be married.
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Re: Jalisco Condo Manual

Postby waltandjean » Sat May 16, 2015 4:10 pm

Just be careful, our Mexican attorney has at least skimmed the book and says there are many mistakes.
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Re: Jalisco Condo Manual

Postby annod » Sun May 17, 2015 2:05 pm

Well....be careful of him also, he might not want to follow one of the laws. If you read the book, or skim through it, it's just a copy of the laws themselves, there cannot be a mistake there. And the interpretation is simply straight forward. He has/had an entire law team in Guadalajara help and proof the book.

Anyway, without the book, I cannot imagine how people do it. My condo still makes tons of mistakes. Mostly because it's just simply what they want to do.
You can either be right all the time or you can be married.
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Re: Jalisco Condo Manual

Postby waltandjean » Sun May 17, 2015 3:59 pm

I'm certainly no lawyer and give no legal advice but our Guadalajara attorney was interviewed for the first edition of the book by the author. He says what what was written in many cases was not what the law is.
You pays your money for a book or a legal consultation and you takes your chances. It's Mexico and every word in the book may be true........or not.
All I was saying is be careful. We are.
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Re: Jalisco Condo Manual

Postby annod » Sun May 17, 2015 9:52 pm

on the advice of a lawyer, my condo was a civil association, which gave us owners no rights at all, getting the book made us aware of how we could be a regime, and actually have control.

If you skim through the book I think you'll see that there's nothing to be afraid of, it's real simple to understand and you can read the actual Article yourself....and so you can decide .... but I sure can see why lawyers would be afraid of the book....it means less work for them!

Maybe his new edition takes care of what the concerns were.

Getting the book doesn't mean people will follow the rules though...but it's a start...when you read it - it sounds like utopia if people actually followed what is written.....but this is PV!
You can either be right all the time or you can be married.
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Re: Jalisco Condo Manual

Postby annod » Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:57 pm

My condo had our attorney write up the Minutes to our yearly assembly, the book warns against this. It seems that the Minutes are a legal document, and our attorney wrote in there that even if we do not understand what the Minutes say we are legally bound by them. They give him an open contract to pursue all cases that we start until they are finished, with no limits to what he can charge or how long the case can go on. He has started new cases on the okay of the HOA president, which is not legal, only all the homeowners can decide that at an Extraordinary Assembly (approval of 51%). Everyone can vote at an Extraordinary assembly - because even if you do not show up, you can vote by email for 30 days after the meeting. Whereas an Ordinary Assembly can only legally vote for the manager, budget and dues, and if you don't show up you don't get to vote (second call),although a proxy is good and the book tells you how. But our lawyer had the people at the Ordinary assembly vote on terminating employees, hiring him and giving the manager extra power (the power to pardon debtors ~ which no one knew they agreed to, and the power to open or close bank accounts....we should never give away our rights, we should be able to vote).

Our first attorney advised us to be a civil association, which means condo regime laws do not pertain to us....so when we hired a manager - they were a employee with all the rights and taxes due. Whereas a condo regime hires a manager on a contract basis, year by year, so if you don't like the one you have you can end the relationship, no drawbacks. So....we had a employee for a manager, and the developer fired her.....she sued us for wrongful termination, and she won.... 3 million pesos. The book really stresses not to be a civil association. If we had all read it.....I tried to warn the others, but they believed the attorney (actually two attorneys were there). Oh yes, our attorney is presently trying to overturn the decision, but it looks doubtful, in my estimation....it will only add to the costs.

I think the lawsuits we are involved in now are illegal as we never had an Extraordinary meeting and vote. But the lawyer has been charging for 3 years now, with no end in sight.

I am posting this as a warning to all who may read here and own a condo, reading the book will only make you safer.
The info in there is invaluable. What I say here is just a start to the learning. If I could do it all over, besides not buying into a condo - I would NOT hire an attorney, you can write up the Minutes yourself, you don't need one at your meetings. You'll never end up ahead, they poo-poo the book for a reason..... They can mislead, cause trouble and never stop charging! Their might be good ones, but we are on our third....if the money we've given them was spent on our condo we'd have a beautiful place.
You can either be right all the time or you can be married.
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Re: Jalisco Condo Manual

Postby annod » Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:05 pm

Also.....the book tells you the correct pay to pay employees and all about paying IMSS, the situation you might be in for firing an employee and rehiring "under the table" without paying taxes. And everything you should know about hiring in Mexico.
We were paying our manager more than 3 times the going rate, and the accountant 5 times the real rate.

The book pays for itself. Having the base knowledge is fabulous, then you can question your attorney about it, but we've sure been mislead by attorneys - so I wish you luck, I know there are good ones. Actually the book cautions about the people who put up a sign saying they are a lawyer, but they are not licensed, he stresses to look at the diploma and go to the government web site to check cedulas. The book tells you of the law Article 25.IV which is a Tax law everyone must follow, the manager must put together a list of who she paid money to and send this to Hacienda, and that list must go to every owner as well...monthly. We certainly wouldn't have ever known about this law! And....to this day...we don't get the list. Did you know it is illegal to pay any invoice which is not a electronic factura? These are tax laws...think IRS, which are punishable with fines and prison.....The book is a MUST READ for every condo owner.
You can either be right all the time or you can be married.
annod
 
Posts: 186
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:53 pm

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